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JudH
Tablet PC Trainee
USA
26 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
 Posted - Jan 16 2005 : 11:58:23 AM
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Hi everyone. I've pretty much decided on a tablet to replace my old notebook but still muling over my choices.
The Fujitsu T4010 convertible seems to be very nice--fast, as light as some slates, built in DVD, and according to the hardware news section soon to have an indoor/outdoor screen.
But since I'm not about to give up my large external monitor I'm going to have to dock this somewhere. The slates all have docking stations that at least help somewhat if you want to rotate it to portrait mode. BUT the dock station/port replicator for the T4010 appears to be the standard notebook type with all the cables coming out the rear. Isn't that a major hassle if you want to use it portrait? Does it even work in portrait when docked or is that mode disabled when you dock it? Does anyone have the replicator? Opinions?
Thanks,
Jud in Dallas
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 18 2005 : 7:49:40 PM
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Jud,
Here's been my experience to date, if you figure this out let me know. I have not called Fujitsu yet. But you are correct, the only way I know of at this time to get the display and tablet screen in synch in landscape mode is physically turn/orient the tablet pc. Thus you fight the cables and port replicator at the front. I am guessing/hoping there is a way to off set the external monitor by 90 or 180 degrees. I do not know if this is a display setting or xp setting or other setting. I have not tried an external display with the capabiliy of rotating between landscape and portrait. Do you think that will work? I might just lie my monitor on it's side. I posted a similar request on this site and did not get any response on how to resolve. Lot's of people reading the posting but no suggestions on solving the issue.
See ya
Stan
More details below>
I have a T4010. Purchased the Fujitsu Port replicator FPCPR49AP.
Attached external monitor Viewsonic A70.
Here's what I found.
When you have the tablet pc in laptop mode the external display is just like the laptop machine for screen orientation, tit for tat.
When you rotate the table pc screen and go into tablet mode the external monitor is out of synch.
Best way to describe it is to look at your monitor and cock your head to your right shoulder and you will match your external display.
If you hit the rotation button again (assuming you have not changed the default setting from the factory) on the tablet pc screen the "Start" is in the upper right side of the port replicator (ie upside down from the external monitor) The external monitor is oriented like laptop pc . |
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obscurite
Tablet PC Thinker
USA
140 Posts
My Tablet PCs: T4010 |
Posted - Jan 19 2005 : 07:03:46 AM
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warning: slightly Off Topic (more about using the 4010 as a desktop)
I *may* order a 4010 this week. I've been wondering what the max external resolution is when using dual head mode (two screens). I'd love to be able to use a 21+" external screen at 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 and the internal screen at the same time. Am I dreaming?
Does anyone know the max. external resolution/refresh on the 4010?
I'm going to go post more probing questions/comments!
-Daniel |
-Daniel |
Edited by - obscurite on Jan 19 2005 07:04:46 AM |
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JudH
Tablet PC Trainee
USA
26 Posts
My Tablet PCs: Motion M1400VA |
Posted - Jan 19 2005 : 09:20:04 AM
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Stan,
That's a different problem. I was just concerned about the cables if you turned the docked tablet to the vertical position. I just assumed it would match the external in horizontal--didn't think about it being upside down.
You're probably just duplicating the monitor. The 4010 SHOULD have support for true DUAL MODE, where XP knows about both monitors. In that mode you can either choose to clone one window or you can treat each monitor as seperate windows and display different things. I know some of the tablets do that because I've seen animated demos that clearly reflected it. My old thinkpad doesn't seem to have it--when I go to display/settings all I see is one monitor--unless I need to activate it in the bootup setup. With dual mode you should see multiple monitors--the primary will have a "1" displayed--the secondary will have a "2" but will be greyed out. There are options to activate and clone etc. There is also some way to have multiple hardware profiles--a normal undocked one and a docked profile that "should" be selected automatically when you dock. Since I've never had support for it I can't quote exact here but it may be enough to get you headed in the right direction. Let us know what you find out.
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 20 2005 : 11:34:20 AM
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Jud,
Thanks for the insight on where to look for the external display issue. I too, have an older IBM thinkpad and found the external monitor pretty straight forward. This one is a bit tricky due to the screen rotation on the tablet pc. Will post on the site once I talk with Fujitsu. It might be a while since it lower on my "todo" list.
See ya
Stan |
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 20 2005 : 6:23:33 PM
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Jud,
Here' what I learned from Fujitsi today.
Message Preview
FYI, spent quite a bit of time with Fujitsu tech support today which had to go back to the engineering dept for input. It seems as if there is an unresolved issue between Microsoft, Intel and Fujitsu in getting an external monitor to be in synch with T4010D in tablet mode (and others.)
If you are using an external monitor with a T4010 tablet pc (and others),when the tablet is in notebook mode the tablet screen and external monitor are tit for tat the same. When you rotate the tablet pc into tablet mode (ie rotate the screen and lie it down to write on) if you are using the default settings from the factory the tablet pc will be in portrait mode and the external display mirrors the tablet screen but be off by 90 degrees. That is cock your head to your right ear. Per Fujitsu tech support, that's the best it gets at this time.
The screens will never match up. One screen rotates clockwise the other rotates counter clockwise. If you use an external display which you can rotate from landscape to portrait it will not help you.
Since most of us who want to use an external monitor is because there are some things easier to do using a keyboard, below is the work around instead of constantly having to rotate the tablet pc screen.
Here's Fujitsu's suggestion---rotate your screen and put the tablet into tablet mode. With external keyboard/mouse attached to the computer, hold down both the control and alt key at the same time and hit the up or down arrow. The screens will rotate. You can have the view you want on the external display or the tablet pc, but not at the same time. I neglected to ask if the rotation keys under the power button or the on screen keyboard would work--you might want to try it.
Those with clout at Microsoft and Intel, your help would be appreciated to get this resolved.
Please be aware I was working specifically with my conputer which is a T4010D with Intel graphics. You might want to double check for yourself based on your machine and configuration.
Thoughts?
Stan |
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JudH
Tablet PC Trainee
USA
26 Posts
My Tablet PCs: Motion M1400VA |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 07:02:20 AM
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< When you rotate the tablet pc into tablet mode (ie rotate the screen and lie it down to write on) if you are using the default settings from the factory the tablet pc will be in portrait mode and the external display mirrors the tablet screen but be off by 90 degrees.>
Check me—I think you’re saying the external monitor is just reflecting what the tablet screen WOULD be showing if you viewed it from the way it would be in notebook mode, i.e. with the hinge to the bottom? With it correct in notebook mode you rotate the screen to tablet mode (but leaving it horizontal) the external screen is “upside down” to the user but correct if viewed from the tablets "hinge" side. Then rotate the entire tablet to portrait which changes the text orientation on BOTH screens which would leave the external one 90 degrees off—but still exactly what you would see viewing the tablet screen with the hinge at the bottom? If so it makes some sense—basically there is NO smarts to the external vga port—it’s simply physically parroting whatever is on the tablet screen.
Does this do the same on both the port replicator AND the built-in VGA port? My guess is that it would.
Now I’m wondering what the other convertibles do in that situation—both the HP TC1100 and the Toshiba M205 rotate the same way. The slates wouldn't have the upside down problem but even they would have the 90 problem if they don't address it somehow.
The HP animated demo definitely shows the external screen changing (and staying vertical) when the docked tablet is rotated. But the contents are different so I think they’re using hardware profiles with DUAL MONITOR support activated. They’ve got to be for the screens to be showing different contents. I still think that’s the answer for you also IF the Intel embedded graphics supports it—the HP has a real graphics card. Did you get a chance to ask Fujitsu about true “DUAL MONITOR” support? What do you see when you go to display-settings? One monitor (with generic popups in the middle) or two monitors with large 1 and 2 numbers in the middle?
Jud
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ChrisParis
Tablet PC Guru
USA
642 Posts
My Tablet PCs: Two M1300's, one M1400VA |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 07:35:35 AM
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Jumped over from the Motion board.
The screen orientation is part of the Windows OS and video hardware(which, back in your old Thinkpad days, didn't support multiple monitors).
I own a slate, but I think I know how the ragtops (convertibles!) work. It should be roughly the same for all.
In "clone" mode (where both screens show the same info) the OS and video only allow for rotating BOTH. The external monitor just parrots the rotation of the tablet. This is fixed, and I don't believe there is anything you can do about it, unless you get a third party solution like UltraMon.
In "expanded desktop" mode, you have the ability to rotate each independently, through the display properties->advanced dialog box (of your particular video processor--- mine is Extreme Intel.) So in Expanded Desktop, you can twiddle everything around until you like it. The problem is that there is no way to save the orientation as a standard configuration, so each time you plug in the external monitor you have to go through the hoops again, which means a lot of little mouse clicks. Again, I think there are third party apps like UltraMon that resolve this, too.
I think one of the downsides of the convertible is the fact that you don't have the docking station options of the slate. You give that up for the laptop conversion ability.
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Proud parent of three Motion Tablets.
www.oxebridge.com |
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alienrat
Tablet PC Guru
United Kingdom
1386 Posts
My Tablet PCs: HP TC1100.
Previous:
HP TC1000,
Viewsonic 1100,
Fujitsu Sytlistic 3400 |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 07:35:38 AM
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OK, called in from the HP area, what were you trying to work out?
On the TC1100, if you have the screen cloned then what you see on the internal screen is the same as the internal (obviously), so if you set the tablet to portrait, then the external monitor is portrait too.
If you are on dual display and you set the screen to portrait, the external screen stays at landscape (but maybe that is because I haven't told the tablet that the monitor rotates).
Does that answer any questions? |
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ChrisParis
Tablet PC Guru
USA
642 Posts
My Tablet PCs: Two M1300's, one M1400VA |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 07:36:42 AM
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Alien and I posted at the same time... we are connected through a complicated psychic link.
Yagol rocks!
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Proud parent of three Motion Tablets.
www.oxebridge.com |
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alienrat
Tablet PC Guru
United Kingdom
1386 Posts
My Tablet PCs: HP TC1100.
Previous:
HP TC1000,
Viewsonic 1100,
Fujitsu Sytlistic 3400 |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 07:37:23 AM
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| ps: the dock for the TC1100 enables you to rotate anyway, so there is no wiring problem. |
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 5:23:42 PM
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Jud,
I will have to digest what you are saying but I believe we are in agreement on what's happening on the rotation between tablet and external monitor.
Let me walk you through what Fujsui and I went through before going to engineering:
Desk top, right click mouse, select properties. You are now at the display properties screen. Select settings.
New window shows Monitor 1 and monitor 2. Monitor 1 selected.
Go to advanced --select Tab for Intel Extreme Graphics 2 for mobil
Select --graphics properties
You now have 3 devices to select from monitor, notebook, Internal Display clone (this has big red check mark showing it is selected, and extended desktop.
Go to rotation and play with what ever you want normal, Rt or left 90 or 180 it will not matter. We tried OpenFL and flipping. No effect in terms of getting the screen to do what I wanted, ie tablet in portrait with windows "start in lower right of screen when in tablet mode and the external monitor to show same so I can read it either in portrait or landscape no matter to me.
Let me stay with Intel Dual Display clone for the moment. Back out so you select monitor 2 rather than monitor 1 at display properties.If you hit advanced settings there is no tab for Intel extreme graphics 2 for mobil
Ok back to having monitor 1 selected as the display, and hitting advanced, Intel extreme graphic tab, then graphics properties, and selecting extended desktop, all you can select is Monitor 1 even though there is an icon for both monitor 1 and 2.
We played but did not solve the issue.
On and on and on.
If you can figure it out it would be great.
I did not ask Fujitsu about their slates, or other convertables. My focus was on the T4010D.
Here's my solution: Make or buy something that I can attach my external diplay to, so I can physically rotate it to any position I want. Visualize a table top lazy susan on the horizontal and spin the entire monitor. Or visualize a roulette wheel on it's side. Might be simplier.
Again per Fujitsu it's an unrespolved issue between Intel, Microsoft, and Fujitsu because they won't share what they consider to be propritary information. Perhaps if there is another chip set other than Intel Extreme graphics that may solve the issue.
Hope this helps.
See ya
Stan
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 21 2005 : 5:44:57 PM
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Jud,
I did not ask specifically about dual monitor support but I think you get the gist of the answer from my previous posting.
Personally, I found Fujisu tech support great to work with.
Thanks
Stan |
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JudH
Tablet PC Trainee
USA
26 Posts
My Tablet PCs: Motion M1400VA |
Posted - Jan 22 2005 : 06:40:31 AM
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<Internal Display clone (this has big red check mark showing it is selected>
Was there any way to UNCHECK that? As long as that's checked it's going to duplicate the screen -- equivilent to what the pre-dual-mode notebooks do. Once you get it unchecked you should have more control over the external setup.
The fact that you are seeing the 1 & 2 monitors answers the question about whether it supports dual monitor - it does. You just gotta get it activated. Keep trying.
They used to make a CRT that rotated around a pivot point--aimed at the desktop publishing folks. Haven't seen it lately but a google search turned up this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_SyncMaster_173P/
4505-3174_7-30630207.html
A 17" LCD that rotates - nice. Looked like there were several LCD brands/models that rotate.
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 23 2005 : 9:55:48 PM
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Jud,
Jud,
I lost some options on monitor selection while messing around with the settings. Now only have the notebook choice and cannot uncheck the Intel choice,. (Lost the 3 device selection from monitor, notebook, Internal Display clone (this has big red check mark showing it is selected, and extended desktop)) I need to check when I did my last back up to see if I can recreate again.
A word of caution, Fujitsu indicated using portriate/landscape monitors used usually by the graphic artists would not make any difference. Tried your suggested link but with no success.
See ya
Stan |
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ssroka1010
Tablet PC Trainee
34 Posts
My Tablet PCs: |
Posted - Jan 23 2005 : 10:09:05 PM
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Dah...
It helps if I am hooked up to the external monitors rather than trying to work on this display issue when I am wireless. Got the display selections back. You can select another ie move the big red check mark to extended desktop from cloned. Although you have options for primary device --either monitor or notebook --secondary device is notebook when primary is monitor, even if you select different rotation and apply it is still just cloning (mirroring) the tablet.
Stan |
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Topic |
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T4010 convertible - port replicator question 
